Wendy Doniger’s Positive Definition of Myth

    Myth as a style of discourse is radically misunderstood by the literal-minded. Literal-mindedness, unfortunately, is a habit to which rational people above all are inclined. In this post, I present excerpts from a book by Chicago scholar Wendy Doniger entitled The Implied Spider: Politics and Theology in Myth (New York: Columbia University Press, 1998). The excerpts adumbrate a positive view of myth. Page numbers are given in brackets.

One way to begin to define myth is to contextualize it on a continuum of all the narratives constructed of words (poems, realistic fiction, histories, and so forth) — all the various forms of narrations of an experience. If we regard this textual continuum as a visual spectrum, we may use the metaphor of the microscope and/or telescope to epitomize the extreme ends of this narrative vision. The end of the continuum that deals with the entirely personal (a realistic novel, or even a diary), the solipsistic (“This never happened to anyone but me”), is the microscope; this is where I would situate a dream or the entirely subjective retelling of an experience. Some novels on this end of the continuum may be contrasted with myths in several respects. These novels depend on the individual; character is all important; these novels say, this could only happen to this one person or at least only did happen to this one person. In most myths, by contrast, character, except in the broadest terms (young or old, wise or foolish), doesn’t count at all; myths say, this could happen to anyone. [p.7]

On this continuum between the personal and the abstract, myth vibrates in the middle; of all the things made of words, myths span the widest range of human concerns, human paradoxes. Epics too, so closely related to myths, have as their central theme the constant interaction of the two planes, the human and the divine, as the gods constantly intervene in human conflicts. Myths range from the most highly detailed (closest to the personal end of the continuum) to the most stripped down (closest to the artificial construct at the abstract end of the continuum); and each myth may be rendered by the scholar in its micro- or macro- form. If prose is general and translatable, poetry particular and untranslatable, myth is prose at its most general, which is one of the reasons why Lévi-Strauss was able to claim that the essence of myth, unlike the essence of poetry, is translatable. [p.9]

Myth is cross-culturally translatable, which is to say comparable, commensurable. The simultaneous engagement of the two ends of the continuum, the same and the different, the general and the particular, requires a peculiar kind of double vision, and myth, among all genres is uniquely able to maintain that vision. Myth is the most interdisciplinary narrative. [p.9]

Every time we listen to a story with mythic dimensions, about human beings in crisis, and really listen and think about the ways in which it is telling us the story of our own lives — and not the story of our own lives — we see for a moment with the double vision of the human microscope and cosmic telescope. [p.25]

Doniger, Wendy. The Implied Spider: Politics and Theology in Myth. New York: Columbia University Press, 1998.

Comments

[Truman Show 2]

The statement about myth maintaining a double vision of the human microscope and cosmic telescope really made me sit down and think of all of the childhood myths I grew to know. The more I looked in to them the more I realized how they truly can be seen through our eyes, and demonstrate a glimpse of the world as a harmonious system. To define myth as a characterization of all narratives is very true. My favorite part when describing myth is when it is described as having a central theme of constantly interacting between the human and divine planes.

[Shawshank Redemption 1]

I can respect the duality of a myth. I enjoyed the way it was broken down into understanding it from two opposite yet conjoined poles. This helps an individual differentiate between the types of myths they are reading or hearing. Myths are not meant to confound the reader (at least not all of them), but rather to make the reader or listener take a step back and either enjoy the literary word play, or compare and contrast with ones own life. I think it is important to note that stories were past down for a long time before ever being written, and because of this many of them have been labeled myths. However, I think it is important to not be too quick to label where on the poles they might fit, because to one person it might be imagination, to another person it could be an accepted fact. This essay was a tough read, and is very well written. To get the grasp of what she was saying in a manner to which I feel I could write about it intelligently, took me a multiple reads.

[Breaker Morant 2]

I have to agree with Shawshank Redemption 1 about the idea of what myths are supposed to make a person think and do. They are not meant to be understood as the truth, although at the time of the myth's creation (which was normally in the BCE eras) they did not know what we know now. Back then it was culture's ideas of what the world was like. Nowadays, myths have become more of a storytelling, inspirational idea, filled with ways to better your life and thoughts of what could be differently if characters did not do what they did.
I believe that Wendy Doniger is correct with the idea that myths should be in the middle between personal and abstract. This allows them to be personalized the people or culture telling the story, while being more abstract in thought because it is based on ideas and thoughts that most people to not think about all the time.

[True Grit 2]

I too had to read it several times and would have to agree with Wendy Doniger on her idea of double vision. When people read stories of any kind they relate them to their lives. I know that I do, and I also think that they are too farfetched to relate to me entirely. Thinking this way gives you the bigger picture of making it personable and also making you think deeper into the meaning. As I read from The Oxford History of the Biblical World, I learned that they think the Bible had been much different back when it was just created but has been slowly morphed to fit translations and society throughout the years; to keep it relatable to people. People have been doing this with everything because everyone wants to understand it and relate to it. I also think myths have a meaning but it depends on how you think abstractly as well as personably. The meaning of the story can change!

[The Mission 5]

When I think of a myth, I don't necessarily think of something not true, but something that could be based off the truth. Like Shawshank said, the stories have been passed down and changed over time, so it still has some truth in it.

[Pulp Fiction 3]

I agree and feel that when a person reads any form of information or material, they have to ask themselves; is this real or not? I feel it is up to the persons perspective and knowledge of something, whether or not they accept this information as fact or myth. This can be extremely controversial when it comes to the Bible. I don’t think anyone can place a finger on its exact context of real or mythological. We have to be sensitive to others beliefs and feelings toward these subjects. This essay is not an easy one to understand, you really have to pull in the information she is saying; and you have to determine for yourself the determinants of truth and myth.

[Truman Show 4]

The microscope/telescope comparison to myths is perfect. Because even though there seems to be no end to the universe when looking through a telescope, eventually there is a point where you can't see any further. Myths of any kind are like this too. They seem like they can be imagined as anything at all, but even the most deep and unrealistic myths still have some type of boundaries. Things like the human mind, a story teller's culture, or even the ability to be upheld through the ages. That's why the "myths" of the Bible are so amazing, they take all of those boundaries to the limit.

[Dead man walking 4]

Along with True Grit 2, I also agree with Wendy Doniger and her idea. I, just like others read stories and try to find the correlation between the text and myself. I do understand that the same has been done with the words from the bible. Although, over time it has been slightly changed to relate across many cultures. This is why myths can be perceive is so many different ways, it just how you take the story and connect it to yourself. “A story with mythic dimensions, about human beings in crisis, and really listen and think about the ways in which it is telling us the story of our own lives — and not the story of our own lives” Anytime we search in the text we come across this idea of double vision.

[Breaker Morant 1]

Myths will continue to be around with every story we hear. Stories are continuously changing because we have to change the context in a way that our world can understand now a day. Most of us will only choose to believe what we think is right, and only consider the myths about the context of a story. We tend to combine everything we hear and then combine our thoughts on the context. Which leads me to agree with what Shawshank Redemption 1 said, stories are passed down and change, but that doesn't mean that there isn't any truth left in the story.

[The Mission 2]

A vague definition of myth can be agreed on by most people, but the details of it becomes an opinion. Different people have different perspectives on what a myth actually is and what to label a myth. Greek mythology is an example of what some people have accepted as a common example of a myth. Gods and goddesses fighting, falling in love, murdering, all with unique stories to share; this isn’t seen in the Bible. I would classify the Bible as a book of history rather than a book of myths. But I guess that’s just my opinion on a myth.

[breaker Moran 4]

This really makes me think about how I look at my life. when I heard the microscope and/or telescope used It really describes how people look at things every one has a different lens. with this in mind for the Bible and if there are myths. every one has to decide for them selfs if the Bible is based on myth or not.

[TheMission4]

I really like the microscope/telescope metaphor for myths. Kind of going off the idea of myths in the Bible though, it shouldn't matter if it is a myth or not. The Bible has influenced so many people and how they live their lives. The Bible has shaped the basic laws of mankind around the entire world. I understand that there is murder around the entire world but when you think about it, other animals kills each other far more often. And I'm not talking about killing other species such as how humans do with cows. I am talking in the same species when it comes to competing for mating rights and territories. Yes, humans have huge wars. But there are over SIX BILLION humans. The amount that die from wars on a yearly basis is small and insignificant compared to what other species do. And in my opinion, this is because books like the Bible have told us that it is wrong to kill. It is generally accepted by the entire world that killing another human is not okay. And if the Bible is a myth, is there really a problem with that? It does not decrease how important it is in the grand scheme of things.

[Nell 5]

Very well said TheMission4. Should it matter what is a myth and what is not? Is it not more important to learn something more, maybe even be apart of something bigger than yourself? A myths purpose is to make you learn more about yourself or even more about the world around you. On a moral level, where would we be without myths or the Bible? Would we be in an existence without laws or rules? Or would we have been the same either way. In my opinion, a person shouldn't take everything as truth, but merely take what you learn from it, such as a sense of what is right or wrong, as truth.

[Shawshank Redemption3]

I too like the comparison of the microscope/telescope in this essay! It puts it in perspective so that we can see hey this is real what she means. I also like that she really relates myth to stories and Dreams. To me I have always related Myths to dreams or stories because you grow up hearing the m as stories this essay really takes what people may think or do think and helps them to understand!

[Nell 2]

This blog entry helped me think about how true the different lens can be a factor in everyone’s life. So much plays into what each of us believes. These factors can be things that have happened in your life, family views, how you were raised, or even opposing viewpoints to what you believe. Everyone does in fact have a different lens that they view from. While each of us has the opportunity to answer if the Bible itself is based on a myth or not depends on which lens we chose to view from. Regardless of if you believe the Bible is myth or not, the idea of the Bible surrounds us. As stated in class bits and pieces pop up in our everyday lives in movies, books, and even the history of our beloved country. Many of our rules and regulations come straight from examples in the Bible. I do not believe that the world would truly be revolved around a myth that just some people believe.

[The Mission 21]

Reading the positive definition of myth made me think about the story of Hercules. The story of the offspring with the god Zeus for a father and a mortal for a mother. I thought it was well put when Doniger described a myth as a theme of “constantly interaction between the human and divine planes. But my favorite definition of a myth was the double vision between the human microscope and the cosmic telescope. I feel like that has a direct correlation to the story of Hercules going to the underworld to battle Haitis to bring back the soul of his lover.

[True Grit 1]

By reading this passage it makes me think of how everyone and mine life goes by having the difference in it. Microscope and telescope helps people look at things closer in science and laboratory. But sometimes the results comes out to be the answer that they did not expect, because people view microscope and telescope results differently from others. That is just how life is because it is how others view their life differently from each others. Mine life might be different from yours and your life might be different from mine. In life there are myths everywhere you go, and most people believe it. But in the Bible I personally believe that there no myths at all. The Bible tells it all and helps you with your life how it have myths in it.