The Power to Kill and Restore to Life (Part 1)

David Ker is asking questions. What are we supposed to do with a passage like 2 Kgs 2:23-25?

וַיַּעַל מִשָּׁם בֵּית־אֵל

וְהוּא עֹלֶה בַדֶּרֶךְ

וּנְעָרִים קְטַנִּים יָצְאוּ מִן־הָעִיר

וַיִּתְקַלְּסוּ־בוֹ וַיֹּאמְרוּ לוֹ

עֲלֵה קֵרֵחַ עֲלֵה קֵרֵחַ׃

וַיִּפֶן אַחֲרָיו וַיִּרְאֵם

וַיְקַלְלֵם בְּשֵׁם יְהוָה

וַתֵּצֶאנָה שְׁתַּיִם דֻּבִּים מִן־הַיַּעַר

וַתְּבַקַּעְנָה מֵהֶם אַרְבָּעִים וּשְׁנֵי יְלָדִים׃

From there he made the ascent to Bethel.
While on the road and climbing,
a group of boys came out from town
and made sport of him:
“Climb on, baldy!
Climb on, baldy!”
He turned around, took one look at them,
and cursed them in the name of YHWH.
Two she-bears came out from the woods
and tore to pieces 42 of the children.

The assumptions of the narrative are the following. Prophets not only have the power to heal; they also have the power to kill. If they didn’t, it could not be said that God endowed them with his power, because God, notoriously, has the power to kill, not only the power to bring to life.

Elisha, whose curse in God’s name leads to the death of 42 children, is the same person who by the power of YHWH sanitizes the water supply of a town, such that the lives of generations of its inhabitants would be preserved (2 Kgs 2:19-22). He is the same person who by the power of YHWH restores the son of the woman of Shunem to life (2 Kgs 4:8-37).

The rabbis knew themselves to have the same powers, and the Talmud contains accounts thereof. As Rabban Simeon ben Gamaliel said in a comment to this passage:

רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר

כל מקום שנתנו חכמים עיניהם

או מיתה או עוני

Rabban Simeon ben Gamaliel says:
wherever the sages fix their eyes,
it’s either death or calamity. (Talmud Bavli, Sotah 46b)

The apostles are also said to have had such powers. A well-known example from the New Testament, every bit as horrible as the 2 Kgs passage, is the following:

A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. He retained for himself, with his wife's knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles. But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the Holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God." When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him. After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened. Peter said to her, "Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?" She answered, "Yes, for that amount." Then Peter said to her, "Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out." At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things. (NAB Acts 5:1-11)

I don’t think David Ker is doing anything unusual when he gives Peter a free pass whereas he considers Elisha to be a bad boy. That’s a typical Christian trick. We’ve seen this movie before. It’s a well-worn path, that of turning the people of the Old Testament, and the God they worshipped, into a whipping boy.

David speaks of the Old Covenant as a dispensation in which “the spirit comes upon you once in a while so you can kill a lot of heathen and the rest of the time you kill goats to get close to God.” Not so the saints of the New, David thinks, those who have “Christ in us.” Killing, evidently, is the last thing on a Christian’s mind. But he fails to note that the followers of Jesus, once martyred and beneath the throne of God, are seen by John the Seer to repeat the following:

When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. They cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?" (NAB Revelation 6:9-10

I see no reason to doubt the vision of John.

According to David, “The new kingdom and its covenant of faith changed the rules of the game and has been leading a pacifist revolt ever since.” This formulation is filled with the usual blindness that afflicts Christians, blindfolded as they often are when reading Scripture. It is a passage of Torah, in the book of Leviticus, that teaches the principle of love of one’s enemy [you all know the passage by heart]. It is a prophet of the Old Covenant who reveals that the righteous live by faith. After all, they always have, and they always will. Can’t be an heir of Abraham if you don’t. Furthermore, the “pacifist revolt” goes hand in hand, both in the Old and New Testaments, with the power of the keys (to use a NT phrase), such that the gift of God’s Spirit not only brings salvation, but also judgment.   

The nice thing about living in the modern world is that judgment is no longer mediated by men and women of God. Prophets like Deborah, Joan of Arc, Elisha and Zwingli no longer foment war. The propaganda aspect of war is now handled by the Rabshakehs of this world. State propaganda in which religion is merely a means to an end worked for imperialists of old. Why shouldn’t it work for us? 

The fighting of war has been taken away from Spirit-filled men willing to die in order to kill others. No more Samsons, no more minutemen, no more young boys with slingshots. The prosecution of war has been delegated to entities like command centrals of the US Armed Forces and the equivalent of the People’s Republic of China. The important thing, for Jews and Christians, too, apparently, is that they are atheist in principle and atheist in practice. “Whose own might is their god.” A winning strategy, no doubt.

In our day, neither prophets nor apostles nor rabbis “say the word,” and death strikes. This we call progress. There is only one disadvantage to the new setup. Neither prophets nor apostles nor rabbis say the word, and healing occurs.

To be continued.

Comments

[Mike Koke]

Good post John. You are right that there is a Marcionite tendency to dismiss the Old Testament and that violence (and grace) is present in both Testaments. I wonder what the solution for modern theological reflection is: to just accept violence as part of the character of God and always let that trouble us or the more liberal solution to argue God is non-violent and have some scripture more normative for our theology than others?

[JohnFH]

Hi Mike,

I think we should continue to let the violence of God trouble us.

I also think we should stop pretending that the very existence of the country we live in if we are Americans, depends not only on the great acts of generosity and courage of previous and present generations, but also, on the indiscriminate use of violence and on systemic greed.

Finally, though this is not what Elisha demonstrates in this passage so far as I can see,
we have to stop treating violence and love as opposites. It's one of the hardest things to accomplish, but also one of the most important: what Jacques Ellul, a Reformed theologian from France, referred to as the violence of love.

Furthermore, I think we should stop pretending and admit there is such as a thing as the violence of love.

[David Ker]

Sometimes young boys jeer to get a rise out of angry balding prophets. Thank you for your perspective on this. I'm genuinely curious about your point of view. I need to get my head around your argument but I find myself exiting stage left pursued by a bear.

My perspective is not Marcionism. Moses and Isaiah are talking about the same God but meditated through the militaristic and ethnocentric lens of the Old Testament writers. Jesus was so strange in that he wasn't simply a projection of Israel's angst. His kingdom transcended the parochial vision of both Pharisee and zealot.

[JohnFH]

David,

It's good to know that you consider yourself mauled in this piece by an angry she-bear. That is exactly the persona I chose to wear in the face of your comments, since the way you tar the Old Testament authors and their God is tantamount to a lynching. Those are my cubs you lynched. If you don't see that, I don't know what to say.

Maybe you're right that the God of the Old Testament is simply a projection of Israel's angst. (If I’m misunderstanding you, please say so, but you do appear to speak in these terms.) It's nice to know that you are not a professing Marcionite but Christianity has often been and still is Marcionite unawares.

I’ve fought crass dispensationalism and Marcionite tendencies my entire adult life. Both phenomena are typical of Christianity today but that doesn’t make them right. I find your views conformist. I wondered at first if you were simply impersonating commonly held misconceptions. Apparently not. Precisely because we’re friends I cannot pretend that these things do not matter, or pretend that I do not think that such misconceptions have grave consequences.

I know from experience how fruitless it is to argue directly with a point of view like yours. Without your permission, just so you know, I reformulate your views into those of a protest against God of the kind we find on the lips of the prophets, Job, and Jesus himself (“My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?”). But your beef is not with the projection of a God of the Old Testament authors. It is with the living God, the same one the prophets, Job, and Jesus remonstrate with.

It would be easy to show that the Jesus of whom you speak never existed. I think you already know that. The Jesus of the gospels is ethnocentric and his ethnocentrism is central to his self-understanding. Indeed, his universalism is unthinkable except as an extension of his ethnocentrism. This is the clear teaching of all four gospels. It is particularly obvious on a fair reading of the gospel of Matthew, and I believe you know you cannot appeal to Paul in order to put the Jesus of the gospels “into perspective.” No less than Jesus, Paul grounds the univeralism of the gospel in the particularism of the Old Testament and Judaism. Romans 9-11 is eloquent testimony thereto.

It would be easy to show that your global construal of the Old and New Testaments is false. (I ask you to refrain from accusing me, as Doug Chaplin does, of not qualifying my statements sufficiently, or of failing to dress up my assertions as questions. I am responding to *assertions* you have made, not questions. If you wish to reformulate your assertions as questions, I will respond in kind.)

The Old Testament is a lot of promise and a measure of fulfillment. The NT is characterized by a greater degree of promise and a greater degree of fulfillment. In this sense, the covenants have the same fundamental structure, and life under both covenants has the same fundamental structure: simul iustus et peccator. To judge by the way you express yourself, you see the Old Testament as a dead letter that kills, whereas you see, not the New Testament, but some odd concoction of your own – a Jesus who is leading a “pacifist revolt” – as a life-giving alternative.

In place of your plastic Jesus, I would point out that the God of the Bible, in the Passion Narrative no less than in the servant songs of Isaiah, in the book of Acts no less than in the book of Kings, in Revelation no less than in Ezekiel, in Paul’s letters no less than in Moses, is not a warm fuzzy. People like to forget that. Dispensationalist preachers like to forget that.

When the course of people’s lives becomes a living demonstration of the fact that circumstances beyond their control, God included, are not always warm and fuzzy, they feel ripped off. Under dispensationalism, no one warns them. So they walk away from faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But the fact is, they never had faith in that God to begin with.

[David Ker]

Sorry I missed this excellent comment, John. Others have mentioned to me that Jesus' apocalypticism was much in keeping with the dominant rabbinic protest of his era. I resist the categories you try to place me in here. There's too much baggage on a term like dispensationalist for it to be helpful. The Levitic sacrifice was greater than the Abrahamic which was greater than the sacrifice of Abel. I don't see why you can't extend that in the other direction and acknowledge that Christ's sacrifice was the greatest of all. We don't minimize the importance of the Old Testament stories by acknowledging that they belonged to another era and another system of belief.

[JohnFH]

Thanks for the clarification, David.

Yes, I'm convinced that there is a pattern of recapitulation in Scripture. That is, the sacrifice of Abraham does not cancel out the sacrifice of Abel, it includes and transcends it.

Nor does Christ's sacrifice cancel out the sacrifices that preceded it, or those that follow it. It interprets them all. It fulfills, not abolishes.

At the same time, the sacrifices of the Old Covenant interpret the sacrifice of Christ.

[Breaker Morant 2]

My first reaction to reading this whole post was wow. It took me a few readings to get all the information presented. I never really thought much about prophets taking the lives of people let alone apostles taking the lives of people. After all Jesus taught to forgive, not to kill. I think my reaction to the first story of the killing of 42 children shocked me because it first said “a group of boys came out from town”. When I think of a group I picture more around 5-10 people, not 42! Also the word choice of children I think gets people sometimes too because children usually hold a sense of innocence for the world. Overall the post got me thinking, especially about modern day religious people and the inability to bring death or healing.

[Praying With Lior 10]

I also found this post really shocking. I did not remember this specific story from the Bible, and to be honest I’m glad I didn’t. This story seems to show a bloodthirsty edge on the prophets. I’m not quite sure what I think about this, especially because love and compassion is a huge part of the Bible.

[Shawshank Redemption 4]

This blog post raised the question for me to wonder, "Why would God choose to kill". This is confusing to me because if he shuns people who kill so much, isn't he doing the exact same thing? Isn't there a sang that goes, "practice what you preach". Well then I am calling God out on this one because I don't believe he has a right to kill, just like us as humans don't have the right to kill. And that goes for the prophets and apostles also. All very confusing stuff and makes one wonder the religion that they are in.

[Chariots Of Fire 1]

Well Shawshank, you got to understand that God is our God and our saviour. You can't test God by calling God out because He's our God. And plus its not good to test out God's wrath. I believe God knows what He's doing and we don't have control over it. But when we see someone dying or going to be killed then all we can do is help by protecting or saving someone's life. Yeah we humans don't have the right to kill, but how about when it's a time to protect or save someone's life?

[Pulp Fiction 4]

This post was very shocking for me, the first story especially. I have always thought the Bible was full of loving and courageous stories. But after reading that the first story about 42 children being tore to pieces, to me that is disturbing. God is not about killing, God is about forgiving and loving people. I can honestly say this post open my eyes about the darker sides of the Bible.

[Dead Man Walking 2]

I am surprised at this blog not by the fact that god killed 42 people, but more at everyone who didn’t think that the bible would include such things or that god would do these things. At the same time though I am not surprised because of what I have seen in other posts. The blind following that seems to run rampant through this course and organized religion is very distressing to me. What I have gotten most out of these blogs is even further distrust for the system of organized religion. Why should I listen to what you preach if you aren’t going to give me the whole truth or just boil it down to the parts that you think I want to hear? I shouldn’t listen is the correct answer.
As for the Bible verse, I can say that it doesn’t surprise me really; the god of the Old Testament is the one who started a 40 day flood remember? I bet that killed more the 42 people or how about the plagues of Egypt? That I’m sure got more than 42 people, children included. Remember you have heard stories of death and destruction before from the ‘all loving god’. Open your eyes to what you read challenge those who claim to know all or be ‘enlightened’. Don’t be a follower, think for yourself. Finally Chariots of Fire 1, I can only speak for me, but while he might be your god, he isn’t necessarily mine or Shawshank’s and I can challenge him all that I chose. Have you ever felt like the man the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Telling people to open their eyes but no one listens? Think about what you follow without question.

[Chariots Of Fire 1]

It even says it in the bible 3 or more times to not test God.

Deuteronomy 6:16
Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.

Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "

Luke 4:12
Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "

[The Mission 4]

When reading your first section on this blog for The Power to Kill and Restore to life Part, I was astonished to hear this story of how a bear tore these boys to 42 pieces. I was so astonished that I had to look it up in the Bible and there it was in second kings 2:19-22 starring me right in the face. Once again the Bible proved to me that it was not just a book of boring litture, but one filled with graphic life lessons. You also brought up the point that many of us forget about god. That is not only does he give us thing but he can also take those splendors away from us. By using the point of Elisha I was able to see more clearly on what you saying about the Prophets. I knew the story of Elisha restoring “the son of the woman of Shunem” (Hobbins), but I did not know of him being the one behind the death of the 42 children. I found it unique that we now more of these Prophets for the good they do than the bad because of the teaching we receive in Sunday school. This point you brings express what is overlook I believe throughout the reading of the Bible. Like one poster said “there is a Marcionite tendency to dismiss the Old Testament and that violence (and grace) is present in both Testaments.” (Koke) I would like to say that I find that though Biblical teaching in Church’s to the younger generations like myself they only seem to express the positive points in Bible and when good comes from the works of the people working or being touched by god. Is this to create the seeds of a new fowler then once your older for instead in our church they have adult bible study’s they start teaching you the other side to the Bible. The second stories you present inside this blog personify your topic and previse story on the boys and the bear. I have heard this story before in a sermon given by my pastor back home in our Vacation Bible school program. Only his point he personified inside the story was that no matter what you say god knows and when you tell deceptions bad thing will evenly come to you. So you should always do the right thing right away. But by having you put this story inside this blog it gave it a whole other diminution. It showed once again how we should not take advantage of what god has given us, but gives him thanks and honor him. In your conclusion I liked how you stated the point of how even with progress something is lost. It is nice to know that we will not fall dead because of church official words, but it would be nice to have the experiences of being healed by simple words. Like you showed us with Elisha he did both good and bad for the people and look what is remembered the most. The good, maybe if we had this type of powerful words being spoken to use day the hope and alliance to the faith would be more prevalent inside our busy lives.

[Truman Show 2]

This post shocked me at first like most because until I read the assigned texts I never heard of Elisha cursing the 42 children killed by the she-bears. It was an unexpected wake- up call and one I would have had a hard time with had I learned during childhood. Obviously realizing what can happen if that kind of power is given to a good person from God. Thinking of what you said it is also alarming because there are no more people to use that power to heal. The thought that really grabbed me was what if an evil person ever had that power like we see in Revelation 13? Truly this topic could go either way but in the end the people with that ability are gone and we depend on our armed forces which unfortunately were not hand chosen by God like Elisha and the others. Even though scary there are many example of power God gave and promised to good people like that of Peter in Matthew 16.

[The Truman Show 4]

The darker sides of the bible can serve as a wake-up call. This post reminded me of a time when a friend of mine god a tattoo in Hebrew saying "Fear God". It got me thinking that we must all love God and live to glorify him but also know that he is powerful. We must always remember that he is the all-powerful and the all-knowing.

[Pulp Fiction 3]

My eyes also opened up after reading this post. The killing of 42 children is very shocking to me. I never thought that the bible had such terrible story/stories in it. I have also thought of the bible as having positive stories with positive outcomes.
Chariots of Fire 1 also makes a good point with the verses from the bible. We should not put our Lord to test or challenge him in any way, shape, or form.

[Nell 4]

I was a little shocked as well as everyone else after reading this post. From what I was taught, I like to believe God is a loving and forgiving God. Not a God that punishes or kills others for no good reason, because we all make mistakes. Otherwise then why did Jesus die on the cross? I guess I just don't understand why God would let these Prophets be good Samaritans of healing others, but then they can easily just take a life away. I just don't get it.

[Pulp Fiction 2]

I find all the comments on this post very fascinating. It seems to me many of the people who thought that knew what was written in the bible really do not. These stories in the above post do not even hold a comparison too many of the other stories presented in the bible. For example, the book of Joshua alone has many atrocities of killing through the conquest of Israel.

After Joshua conquers the city of Jericho; Joshua 6:21 states, “Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys.”

When Joshua attacks the city of Ai, Joshua 8:24-25, 28-29a states, “When Israel had finished slaughtering all the inhabitants of Ai in the wilderness where they pursued them, and when all of them to the very last had fallen by the edge of the sword, all Israel returned to Ai, and attacked it will the edge of the sword. The total of those who fell that day, both men and women, was twelve thousand – all the people of Ai. So Joshua burned Ai, and made it a heap of ruins, as it is to this day. And he hanged the king of Ai on a tree until evening…”

These conquests continued, thirty-one kings in all were conquered and their kingdoms destroyed. Many of these were complete annihilations of the civilizations, not only the killings of all soldiers but the kings and civilians as well.

[Nell 1]

It is troubling that God’s people are killed but I don’t think that anyone should be surprised by that. I do not believe that called should be “called out” for killing. He is a fair and just God. God has plans and will continue to follow them regardless of what we think is right for Him to do. God has killed people in other circumstances and sometimes those other times seem less frightening. For instance, no one thinks about how many people died in the flood. Noah and his family were saved, but what about everyone else that dies. That particular story is focusing on the people whose lives were spared yet no one begins to wonder about those who were killed. God is Almighty and has power to kill and save lives. He does what He sees fit and we may wonder God’s intentions but should never question them. God has a purpose in everything he does.

[Breaker Morant 5]

This story is definitely not one that they teach you at Sunday school. I agree with some of the points that Shawshank Redemption 4 brought up. I understand that God has the power to give and take life away. However, I find it disturbing that God would ever choose to end a life. It is good for people to read the darker stories of the Bible to fully understand the love as well as wrath that God can display. I’m also not sure how I feel about the prophets having the ability to heal as well as take one’s life away.

[The Truman Show 5]

I agree with BM 5, this is not a story that they'll teach you in Sunday school. It is very dark, and just plain odd. Why would the Lord who has chosen to give us all life, chose to end one. I mean yeah he has the power to do that but shouldn't people be allowed to try and make up for their wrongdoings. I think that people should teach stories like this so that they can begin to understand how God's wrath can affect us.

[chariots of fire 3]

I thought this article was definitely different from all of the other articles that we have read, and I don’t really understand or like it very much at all. I completely agree with both Praying with Lior 10 and Shawshank redemption 4. I don’t remember either reading or hearing anything about this passage, and I think it contradicts almost everything else that the bible stands for. I do not understand why God would chose or want his people to kill considering killing is a mortal sin.

[Dead Man Walking 3]

The more I read from the Old Testament the more questions I have. I have now seen how God can be an angry God. I just see that as a downfall or a bad side. I know God is supposed to be perfect but I would never think he teaches his people how to be angry and hatred toward others. I do see that he teaches this so they can stand up for themselves, it just comes as a shock that just through a couple name callings, bears come and maul children from his wraith. It is good that God is standing up for that man but I guess I still question things in the Old Testament. I see the New Testament in how they teach about forgiveness and not to fight back. I love the stories of the bible, and I know I’m not perfect I just lack the wisdom God has and wish I could see why he does certain things, but don’t we all.

[Lior 4]

This is an example of God's ability to give life and to take it away. While it does seem to show a vengeful side of God and the prophet we have to keep in mind that God does things that are beyond our understanding, and we need to trust in Him.

[Chariots of Fire 1]

I disagree with your comment “Neither prophets nor apostles nor rabbis say the word, and healing occurs.” I believe there are people out there who God uses to heal people instantly. I’ve heard true accounts in modern times of someone asking God to heal another and in that moment God does. It’s not impossible, it just doesn’t happen as often. And I think it’s partly our fault because we don’t have faith that it can happen.

[JohnFH]

Hi CF 1,

After "much prayer and fasting," to use the New Testament expression, cases of spontaneous remission of disease have been reported. Surgeons I've noticed are the last people to rule out healing that defies explanation. Still, as you say, if it happens, "[i]t doesn't happen very often."

[True Grit 2]

This was a very disturbing passage to me, 2 Kings 2:23-2. I could not believe that the children were mauled by a bear. This seems like a very unfair punishment for a little name calling. I do not know why God would allow this to happen. He controls all things in the end.

[Shawshank 4]

I find this post to be slightly confusing. I have never really taken it upon myself to learn about God or the bible, so any knowledge I have is teachings, opinions, experiences etc. of others. No one has ever told me that there is punishment aside from hell. It is difficult for me to grasp the concept of a God who will willingly take a life because of one instance or one mistake. It seems to contradict the idea of humans having the opportunity to ask God for forgiveness, or the ability to re-direct their own lives to be in accordance with Him. The passage about the mauling of the children just shocked me. Mostly because there is a curiosity and innocence to children that I believe excuses some negative characteristics they may possess, but also because they are still far too young to understand to which extent they are wrong for making a mockery of another human being. I completely agree with the many posts before mine that this is definitely not a concept that would be taught in Sunday school. It is a lot darker than anything I would ever associate with the bible, but at the same time I feel this reality has made it easier for me to relate to the bible in the sense that I am an imperfect person living in an imperfect world. Even people in the biblical world were vengeful and inflicted punishment when they were treated badly, that does not make it right, or even right by God, but it adds a sense of realism.

[Pulp Fiction 3]

I found it intriguing that we know more about the Prophets for the good they do than the bad because of the teaching we receive in Sunday school. It was as if the Bible were quoting our parents as we grew up, “Ill tell you when you are older.” We never heard the bad because we were guarded from it. Now that we have the capacity to understand and interpret it, we see the bad that shows through parts of the Bible. In a way we are old enough to read this, and comprehend the significance.

[The Mission 21]

The first time I read the entire post, my response was one of shock. I had to read it over a couple times to really understand all of the information being thrown at me. The thought never crossed my mine about how prophets were taking the lives of people. my second thought was "didn't Jesus preach the idea of forgiveness, not killing." The story of the killiing of 42 children is what really took me by surprise. I definitely did not think "a group" ment 42 people. Thats more of a large crowd. And i did not like how the used the word "children" either. When people think of the word child, they immediatly think of an innocent human being. It got my mind churning on the thought of different religions and how the deal with punishment and/or healing.

[breaker morant4]

I all ways thought the bible was about teaching people how the get along with one another and how to be nice to your fellow man/woman. I don't know how god could have prophets commit homicide. It goes against every thing I believe in the bible.

[True Grit 1]

I find this post confused because like what everyone else said I thought God created human to love one another and to hate and kill each other. Also the other reason is that I still have a question is that why do people want to kill children. I never really thought or notice the reason why people always aim at killing kids when they dont even know what is going on. Reading the Bible it seem like those people in the Bible are like giving up their children away so easy and killing other kids. I wonder why they do that.

[Breaker Morant 1]

After reading this, I was disturbed like many others were. I agree with many that we need to hear stories like this out of the Bible; we must not forget about them. Life isn't always glorious and we need to keep in mind that God has plans. He has plans for us and he has plan for the future. We should not question his actions and his wrath; we just need to except his love for us without questioning.

[Pulp Fiction 4]

I find passages like the one in Kings 2 very interesting, because whenever you hear about prophets, it’s always about the good things they did. Nobody ever mentions misdeeds like that of Elisha. I think the purpose of passages like this is to show that you don’t have to be perfect all the time for God to give you his blessing. You can have lapses in judgment and still do amazing things and be holy.

[Nell 5]

Yes, unfortunately these are the ways of humanity. We leave bloodshed at every door in our history. To me, this is the classic example of how power can corrupt even the best of us. The prophets mentioned in this blog did great things, but also did terrible things. In our own history, we like to view it with an outlook of how good we did, rather than the harm we are doing. Think for a moment of a ruler in the Old Testament who used his power for his own gain. I am referring to King David when he slept with another man's wife. Then tried to cover it up, and when that did not work, had him killed in battle. To long we human beings put our own needs above the needs of others. Give one man power, and you sentence another to suffering. Unfortunately, this tends to be the natural balance of power. If you need any examples of this, take a look at the great men mentioned in the Bible, as well as taking a look at the great men in more recent history.

[The Mission 2]

In my NIV Study Bible, the comments on this set of verses changes the way one looks at this story. Elisha was called a baldy by the youths and according to the comments on this word, baldness was very uncommon in Jews. Luxuriant hair was seen as a sign of strength and vigor. Therefore when the youths used the insult “baldy” they were expressing their city’s complete contempt for God’s representatives. They also were suggesting that Elisha, who was the Lord’s representative, had no power. So to show them the power of God, Elisha cursed them; showing them and anyone who heard of this incident that God would curse those against Him, but bless those who looked to Him for strength.

[True Grit 5]

I think the part that I feel I don’t either quite agree with or maybe just don’t get is saying the word and healing or killing. Most times in prayer or other circumstances like causing demons to leave, Christians find power in the Lords name as long as we have faith to believe. I don’t often here to many people in the present day using the Lord to kill others but more often for healing. I believe there is power in the Lords name and he heals the sick and does amazing things. So to say that there is no healing done in the Lords name kind of makes me wonder is the intention really there and for the purpose God gives us to heal in His name.

[Chariots of Fire 4]

I'm a little confused by this post. Yes I understand that the prophets are endowed with God's power but why would the prophet want to kill anybody. Plus if I'm not mistaken God is the decider he chooses who lives and dies. Since when is it alright to allow a human even if its a prophet the right to kill somebody. Humans make mistakes so we should have that right, prophets are also human so they make mistakes as well. Once again if I'm not mistaken wasn't Peter a prophet and didn't he deny God and make numerous other mistakes. I guess I just don't understand how anybody other then God should have the right to kill.

[Truman Show 4]

In my opinion, I don't think it was Elisha that directly killed those boys. I think that because those boys were mocking a man of the Lord, God struck them down. Nowhere does it say in that passage: the power of God given to Elisha was the cause for Elisha to kill them. It just seems to me that God was trying to show whoever read the Bible that if you mock the messengers of God; it will not end well for you.