SEARCH THIS SITE

Bible Reference Index

Diglot Editions

Dunash ben Labrat

Ali Ahmad Said

Verbal System of Ancient Hebrew

The Bible as seen through the eyes of . . .

« Genre identifications in the ZIBBC (Part 4) | Main | Psalm 1: A Bilingual Edition and Commentary »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83454e67969e20120a66077cc970b

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The other ESV Study Bible: The Lutheran Study Bible (TLSB):

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

I'm rather disappointed by these remarks. Given the profile of this blog's author, I would expect more than what strikes me as a rather snarky, and far too facile, treatment of The Lutheran Study Bible.

There appears to be more behind these remarks, for surely these remarks which are irresponsibly inaccurate, would have done more than make assertions.

Let me cite but one example:

This post claims that The Lutheran Study Bible could have included the Apocrypha. In point of fact, this is factually inaccurate, since the editorial work on TLSB was finished well before the Cambridge edition of the ESV Apocrypha was published.

As I said, disappointing indeed.

Rev. Paul,

No offense intended. Perhaps you might let us know when the last time was that conservative Lutherans printed a Bible inclusive of the Apocrypha.

Keil and Delitzsch thought the Apocrypha important enough that they commented on a number of the books therein. I wouldn't be surprised if in their day, many confessional Lutherans, at least in Europe, read the Apocrypha with interest in accordance with precedent Lutheran tradition.

It's fair to say, however, that conservative Lutheran interest for the Apocrypha has been in free fall since. If you think otherwise, please say so.

As of now, Concordia Publishing House does not sell a single study Bible inclusive of the Apocrypha. But if you are suggesting that that is about to change, I would love to be able to modify this post with news to that effect.

John, thanks for the link, and the compliment: "Kevin Sam, my favorite Lutheran blogger..." ;) I'm glad you're reading my blog. I enjoy reading yours too.

Rev. Paul McCain works for Concordia so don't be intimidated by his comments including one where he states: "what strikes me as a rather snarky, and far too facile, treatment of The Lutheran Study Bible. " Notice that he took full liberty to critique the LSB: NRSV here on my review of it. I'm surprised the TLSB hasn't seen more critique.

Our blogs on the blogosphere are also here to provide some objective critique. I don't think Paul has seen the other blogs where people have endlessly critiqued the NLT,NIV, TNIV, ESV until kingdom come. Critique is what makes the difference between an inferior translations/bibles and a superior one. I believe the NIV2011 will become a great translation in the future because it has seen unparalleled critique. Btw, my bible study group has bought a case of TLSB: ESV.

Hi Kevin,

Don't worry; I am not easily intimidated. If I were, I wouldn't be blogging, since fire-breathing dragons and trolls inhabit the sphere, as elsewhere in life.

I didn't know McCain worked for Concordia - a great publishing house. The drift of his comment, unless it is pure bombast, would suggest that Concordia will publish a study Bible inclusive of the Apocrypha in the future. That would be a very Lutheran thing to do, if you ask me.

John, from what I know about the Missouri Synod Lutherans (LCMS-Concordia), they pay very little attention to the apocrypha because it borders on heresy so its inclusion is not even a consideration for TLSB's future. LCMS believes in the inerrancy of scriptures, whereas, in the ELCA, anything goes. I think McCain might have been a little uneasy about your mentionof the possibility of having the apocrypha in TLSB.

Since it' s the ELCA Lutherans (Augsburg) who are open to the apocrypha, I wouldn't be surprised if they included it in the future.

Of course, it is well-known that for Luther and Zwingli, the Bible was not complete without the Apocrypha.

That's why the preachers of Zurich published a Bible as early as 1530 inclusive of the Apocrypha. The Lutherbibel included the Apocrypha from 1534 on. Heretics all, I guess.

The real question is when the innovation occurred, that Bibles began to be considered complete without the inclusion of the Apocrypha.

A couple of thoughts. First, you'd expect things from Concordia Publishing House (TLSB) to sound differently than Crossway because CPH is the publishing arm for the LCMS (not WELS as above), whereas Crossway is not affiliated with any Christian denomination, giving it a very different emphasis. So, would you expect TLSB to sound un-Lutheran?

Second, it is odd, you have such a big quibble about the lack of inclusion of the Apocrypha. I'm not sure if you're confused about where the LCMS stands in regard to it. The LCMS position certainly doesn't put the Apocrypha and the Bible on the same level, but it also doesn't say the Apocrypha has no value. To a Lutheran, Romanists also misinterpret the Bible, but that doesn't mean Lutherans throw the Bible out as well. Based on everything I've heard, there will be an Aprocryphal edition published, but, as they say, these things take time (in other words, I don't expect you'll see such an edition within the next year). Given that every other Bible I've owned (except for my LXX) has lacked the Apocrypha, I can't say I missed it. I simply use other books which have apocryphal texts separate. I don't see a sin in that.

Third, I don't think TLSB is a perfect study Bible (I've yet to find a perfect one). I'm not going to agree with everything in it, but it is certainly a good Bible, which is going to be even more valuable if you're a (Missouri Synod) Lutheran. So it's always helpful to be aware of the categories of your criticism. For instance, I'm not even sure what your sentence on inferior maps intends to say. "Conservative Lutherans believe poor maps are best"? Wouldn't this be a technical criticism of the editing and not related to its theology? Whether notes are too technical or not, I imagine has something to do with theology, but it also is related to its perceived audience.

John, it wasn't clear what your level of interaction w TLSB was? Sam's blog posts? Samples on the website? Personal use of it? I don't think this is a bad blog post per se, it's just a little harder to follow than some of your work on the Psalms for instance :)

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your helpful blogging, BTW.

My knowledge of TLSB is based on the extensive samples I refer to in the body of the post.

I know Concordia is not the de jure publishing house of WELS. De facto, however, it is, as I note whenever I visit with WELS pastors in their studies.

I could be wrong, but it remains my impression that the inferior quality of the maps and technical notes is a reflection of current conservative Lutheran priorities, not of perceived audience.

Let's be honest: almost anyone who reads the Bible, Lutheran no less than non-Lutheran, lay as well as clergy, would be overjoyed to have high quality maps and technical notes of the kind ESVSB abounds in.

Now, if Concordia is planning to publish a study Bible with the Apocrypha and notes thereto, PTL! Is this official?

Luther carefully explains in a preface his reasons for rendering the writings of the Apocrypha into German and putting them in his Bible as an appendix to the OT.

It doesn't take much study of church history to realize that the choice to depart from Luther on these matters has nothing to do with Luther and everything to do with recent trends in the context of which you hear people say the Apocryphal books are "heretical."

Luther, at least, the mature Luther, who recommended that excerpts from the Apocrypha be used in worship, would not have spoken in crass terms of the Apocrypha.

But let me end on a positive note. It is a great thing to have a study Bible that includes a fine variety of theological and devotional helps. I concur with Michael Spencer on this.

Just quickly, re: the Apocrypha stuff. This is from CPH's website, so I think you would call that the horse's mouth

Does The Lutheran Study Bible include the Apocrypha?
No, it does not, though it does contain an explanation of the history between the two Testaments and an explanation of the books that were written during this time and traditionally included in Lutheran Bibles since the first edition of Luther’s Bible in 1534, continuing up the time that The Missouri Synod moved from German to English, at which time, the Apocrypha was no longer included. We did not feel it was wise to try to reintroduce these books to the English speaking Lutheran Church by including them in The Lutheran Study Bible since the vast majority of Lutherans are entirely unfamiliar with them. Rather, we are considering producing a separate volume detailing what these books are, offering more extensive history and background for them and including the books themselves. This will be a better way to introduce Lutherans to the heritage of including these books, which Luther said in his Bible that thought they are not canonical like the other books of the Bible, they are certainly good for reading.

--

In other words, when our church body used to publish Luther's German Bible, the Apocrypha was there, but ever since going to English it has not been there for Lutherans, nor has it been published under CPH's imprimatur (which is really not a big deal after all since CPH is not a *Bible* publisher. Their last rendition of a study Bible (the Concordia Self-Study Bible) was basically the NIV Study Bible notes with a few additions. In other words, church goers have always been free to buy Apocryphal Bibles or supplements, it's just not been something that CPH has published. Evidently whenever this new Apocryphal edition is published, that will be the first time. So in your eyes, we're making progress in that regard ;-) But still, the only reason why they would even publish it now, is because it will have distinctly Lutheran notes and emphases I imagine. Otherwise, just tell people to buy it from Crossway or some other retailer.

(I can't speak to the ESV Study Bible's strengths or weaknesses vis-a-vis TLSB since I don't own a copy of the former.)

Hi Mike,

That's helpful. Of course, the reason the vast majority of Lutherans are unfamiliar with the Apocrypha is that, somewhere along the way, the majority of Lutherans gave up reading parts of it during worship. I imagine its disuse in worship preceded its non-inclusion in editions of Luther's Bible.

Crossway has not published an edition of the Bible inclusive of the Apocrypha. Nor do they publish it separately. Logic would suggest that the conservative Reformed, if they return to the position of documents like the Belgic Confession, will get around to doing what Concordia is planning to do.

Perhaps the best place to start, for the general reader, is an NRSV Study Bible which includes the Apocrypha. They can be purchased through CBD for example.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

My Photo

Google Blogrolls

BlogRoll

  • A Simple Jew
    Chassidus and more
  • Abnormal Interests
    Intrepid forays into realia and texts of the Ancient Near East, by Duane Smith
  • ABZU
    Bibliographical links in the field of Ancient Near Eastern Studies
  • Awilum
    Insightful commentary on the Bible and the Ancient Near East, by Charles Halton
  • Balshanut
    top-notch Biblical Hebrew and Semitics blog by Pete Bekins, Ph. D. student, Hebrew Union College, Cincinnati OH
  • Believing is Knowing
    Comments on things like prophecy, predestination, and reward and punishment from an orthodox Jewish perspective, by David Guttmann
  • Ben Byerly's Blog
    thoughts on the Bible, family, Africa, Kenya, social justice
  • Berit Olam
    by a thoughtful Matt Morgan, Berkeley CA resident, grad student at Regent University, Vancouver BC
  • Better Bibles Blog
    Discussion of translation problems, review of English Bible translations, and more, by Suzanne McCarthy, Wayne Leman, and others
  • Bibbia Blog
    A Bible blog in Italian and English by former students of the PIB and PUG
  • Bible and Ancient Near East
    by Alan Lenzi, professor of Hebrew Bible and ANE Studies at University of the Pacific, Stockton CA
  • Bible Design & Binding
    J. Mark Bertrand's place
  • BibleDudes favorite #1
    Intro to Literary Criticism of the Bible, with a link to Erich Auerbach's essay entitled "Odysseus' Scar"
  • Biblicalia
    The riches of orthodoxy brought online by Kevin Edgecomb
  • Biblicalist
    A free-for-all, but carefully moderated, email discussion list in biblical studies
  • Biblische Ausbildung
    by Stephen L. Cook, professor of Old Testament / Hebrew Bible at Virginia Theological Seminary
  • Blue Cord
    nuanced, careful comment on Old Testament and more, by biblical scholar Kevin Wilson
  • Bryan's Thoughts
    perceptive theoblog
  • Catholic Sensibility
    a thoughtful blog by a liturgist in a Midwestern parish
  • Chrisendom
    by Chris Tilling, one smart Englishman in the land of Hegel and Goethe
  • Christ, My Righteousness
    by Celucien L. Joseph; here's hoping he will also get his Theological French site up to speed
  • Claude Mariottini
    a perspective on the Old Testament and current events by a professor of Old Testament at Northern Baptist Theological Seminary, Chicagoland, Illinois
  • clayboy
    Clayboy is really called Doug Chaplin. This is his blog. Some of what he says may be worth reading, but you may have to read the bits that aren't to find the good stuff.
  • Codex: Biblical Studies Blogspot
    by Tyler Williams, professor of Old Testament / Hebrew Bible at Taylor University, Edmonton, Alberta
  • Complegalitarian
    A team blog that discusses right ways and wrong ways Scripture might help in the social construction of gender
  • Connected Christianity
    a place to explore what it might be like if Christians finally got the head, heart, and hands of their faith re-connected
  • Conversational Theology
    Smart and delightful comment by Ros Clarke, a Ph.D. student in Old Testament at Westminster Seminary
  • Daily Hebrew
    Not so daily at the moment, but lots of good stuff, by Chip Hardy, doctoral student, University of Chicago
  • Davar Akher
    Looking for alternative explanations: comments on things Jewish and beyond, by Simon Holloway
  • Deinde
    News and Discussion by Danny Zacharias
  • Discipulus scripturae
    Nathan Stitt's place
  • Dr. Jim West
    A weblog about Biblical Studies, Theology, and current events, by Jim West, Th.D.
  • Dr. Platypus
    insightful comment by Darrell Pursiful, editor at Smyth & Helwys Publishing.
  • Eclexia
    The heart and mind of this Bible and theology blogger sing in unison
  • Eliana
    on her way to a Ph. D. program in biblical studies
  • Elizaphanian
    Rev Sam tussles with God, and limps away
  • Emerging from Babel
    Stephen investigates the potential of narrative and rhetorical criticism as a tool for expounding scripture
  • En Epheso
    by Mike Aubrey, linguist and lover of Ephesians
  • Euangelion
    NT blog by Michael Bird and Joel Willitts
  • Evangelical Textual Criticism
    A group blog on NT and OT text-critical matters
  • Evedyahu
    by Cristian Rata, Lecturer in Old Testament of Torch Trinity Graduate School of Theology, Seoul Korea
  • Exegetica Digita
    discussion of Logos high-end syntax and discourse tools – running searches, providing the downloads (search files) and talking about what can be done and why it might matter for exegesis, by Mike Heiser
  • Exegetisk Teologi
    careful exegetical comment by Stefan Green (in Swedish)
  • Exploring Our Matrix
    Insightful reflections by James McGrath, ass't. professor of religion, Butler University
  • Faith Matters
    Mark Alter's place
  • finitum non capax infiniti
    Arthur Boulet’s place (Westminster Seminary, Philadelphia PA)
  • Gentle Wisdom
    A fearless take on issues roiling Christendom today, by Peter Kirk, a Bible translator
  • Giluy Milta B‘alma
    by Ezra Chwat and Avraham David of the Institute of Microfilmed Hebrew Manuscripts, Jewish National and Hebrew University Library, Jerusalem
  • Hagahot
    by a doctoral student in Jewish studies
  • He is Sufficient
    insightful comment on Bible translations, eschatology, and more, by Elshaddai Edwards
  • Higgaion
    by Chris Heard, Professor of Religion, Pepperdine University
  • Hirhurim Musings
    by Rabbi Gil Student and colleagues
  • Idle Musings of a Bookseller
    by James Spinti of Eisenbrauns
  • if i were a bell, i'd ring
    Tim Ricchiuiti’s place
  • Imaginary Grace
    Smooth, witty commentary by Angela Erisman
  • James' Thoughts and Musings
    by James Pate, a doctoral student at HUC-JIR Cincinnati
  • kata ta biblia
    by Patrick George McCollough, M. Div. student, Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena CA
  • Ketuvim
    Learned reflection from the keyboard of Jim Getz
  • Kilbabo
    Ben Johnson’s insightful blog
  • Lingamish
    delightful fare by David Ker, Bible translator, who also lingalilngas.
  • Looney Fundamentalist
    a scientist who loves off-putting labels
  • Menachem Mendel
    A feisty blog on rabbinic literature by Michael Pitkowsky
  • mu-pàd-da
    scholarly blog by C. Jay Crisostomo, grad student in ANE studies at ?
  • Narrative and Ontology
    Astoundingly thoughtful comment from Phil Sumpter, a Ph.D. student in Bible, resident in Bonn, Germany
  • New Epistles
    by Kevin Sam, M. Div. student at the Lutheran Theological Seminary, Saskatoon SK
  • NT Weblog
    Mark Goodacre's blog, professor of New Testament, Duke University
  • Observatório Bíblico
    wide-ranging blog by Airton José da Silva, Professor de Bíblia Hebraica/Antigo Testamento na Faculdade de Teologia do CEARP de Ribeirão Preto, Brasile (in Portuguese)
  • Occasional Publications
    excellent blogging by Daniel Driver, Brevard Childs' scholar extraordinaire
  • old testament passion
    Great stuff from Anthony Loke, a seminary lecturer and Methodist pastor in Malaysia
  • On the Main Line
    Mississippi Fred MacDowell's musings on Hebraica and Judaica. With a name like that you can't go wrong.
  • PaleoJudaica
    by James Davila, lecturer in Early Jewish Studies at the University of St. Andrews, St Andrews, Scotland. A weblog on ancient Judaism and its context
  • Pastoral Epistles
    by Rick Brannan and friends, a conceptually unique Bible blog
  • Pen and Parchment
    Michael Patton and company don't just think outside the box. They are tearing down its walls.
  • Pisteuomen
    by Michael Halcomb, pastor-scholar from the Bluegrass State
  • Pseudo-Polymath
    by Mark Olson, an Orthodox view on things
  • Purging my soul . . . one blog at a time
    great theoblog by Sam Nunnally
  • Ralph the Sacred River
    by Edward Cook, a superb Aramaist
  • Random Bloggings
    by Calvin Park, M. Div. student at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, South Hamilton MA
  • Resident aliens
    reflections of one not at home in this world
  • Revelation is Real
    Strong-minded comment from Tony Siew, scholar-pastor serving in North Borneo, Malaysia
  • Ricoblog
    by Rick Brannan, it's the baby pictures I like the most
  • Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
    Nick Norelli's fabulous blog on Bible and theology
  • SansBlogue
    by Tim Bulkeley, lecturer in Old Testament, Carey Baptist College (New Zealand). His Hypertext Commentary on Amos is an interesting experiment
  • Ancient Near Eastern Languages
    texts and files to help people learn some ancient languages in self study, by Mike Heiser
  • Scripture & Theology
    a communal weblog dedicated to the intersection of biblical interpretation and the articulation of church doctrine, by Daniel Driver, Phil Sumpter, and others
  • Scripture Zealot
    by Jeff Contrast
  • Seforim blog
    great Judaica blog by Dan Rabinowitz and Menachem Butler
  • Singing in the Reign
    NT blog by Michael Barber (JP University) and Brad Pitre (Our Lady Holy Cross)
  • Stuff of Earth
    NT blog by Michael Pahl, NT instructor, Calgary Alberta
  • Sufficiency
    A personal take on the faith delivered to the saints, by Bob MacDonald, whose parallel blog on the Psalms in Hebrew is a colorful and innovative experiment
  • Sunestauromai: living the crucified life
    by a scholar-pastor based in the Grand Canyon National Park
  • Targuman
    by Christian Brady, targum specialist extraordinaire, and dean of Schreyer Honors College, Penn State University
  • The Forbidden Gospels Blog
    by April DeConick, Professor of Biblical Studies, Rice University
  • The Magnes Zionist
    self-criticism from an American, Israeli, and orthodox Jewish perspective
  • The Naked Bible
    by Mike Heiser, academic editor at Logos Bible Software
  • The Reformed Reader
    by Andrew Compton, Ph.D. student in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures (focus on Hebrew and Semitic Languages) at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA)
  • Theological German
    a site for reading and discussing theological German
  • This Lamp
    Incisive comment on Bible translations and more, by Rick Mansfield
  • Thoughts on Antiquity
    incisive comment on matters related to Greco-Roman antiquity, by Chris Weimer and friends
  • Threads from Henry's Web
    Wide-ranging comment by Henry Neufeld, educator, publisher, and author
  • Tolle lege
    A wide-ranging blog with excellent posts on the wisdom books of the Bible and the psalms, by Dave Beldman
  • Two Tzaddiks
    by Susan Steeble, a journey into the heart of Hasidic Judaism
  • Ultimate DovBear
    ruthlessly honest Jewish blog
  • What I Learned From Aristotle
    follows topics that interested Aristotle: art, ethics, logic, philosophy, poetry, rhetoric, science, and truth.
  • Voice of Stefan
    Carbonated holiness from Esteban
  • Weblog
    by a fearless Wikipedian, Justin Anthony Knapp

Links of Interest

Viewing Documents

  • Adobe Acrobat Reader
    To view the documents on this blog you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader. If you do not have this, download it from the link above.
Blog powered by TypePad

Technorati

Terms


  • Ancient Hebrew Poetry is a weblog of John F. Hobbins. Opinions expressed herein do not reflect those of his professional affiliations. Unless otherwise indicated, the contents of Ancient Hebrew Poetry, including all text, images, and other media, are original and licensed under a Creative Commons License.

    Creative Commons License

    Copyright © 2005 by John F Hobbins.