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» Clarifying the authority of the deuterocanonical literature from Metacatholic
As expected, John Hobbins updates his blog with varied responses to his interblogutors (a neologism I expect I shall use again). A few random comments on some of those responses before moving to the nub indicated by this posts title. He picks up... [Read More]

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Permit me to give an initial response which is, not at all straightforward but elliptically allegorical, paraphrasing Nobel Laureate S. Y Agnon's Hassidic story Baya'ar uva'ir (In the City and the Forest):

The story begins with a Jewish boy trying to unify the world by standing naked in a river up to his neck -- his feet on the earthy bottom, the wind caressing his face, and the heat of the sun on his face -- joining water, earth, air, and fire. One day, he meets an old Pole in the woods who tells him that while all things are possible, one needs to live optimistically.

When the youth enters the river again for his daily ritual, he nearly drowns because of torrential rains.

Eventually he sees a new creation rising -- it was Nisan, the first month of spring. The forest is different: dark, dank, ominous.

Suddenly an escaped, Polish murder, Franczisk (the only character named in the story) -- short and fat -- confronts the young man in the forest and offers him a drink whiskey which the youth accepts. Before taking a sip, the youth recites the required blessing shehakol -- Blessed are You, O King of the Universe, for everything happens by His word. Franczisk asks for an explanation -- and he thinks, maybe it is true that everything happens through God's will. He tries to commit the word to memory and repeats, in his Polish accent, "tshakal."

A while later, the young man sees Franczisk being brought to the city gallows to be hanged (and thus the youth calls him, significantly, talui.) The murderer declines last rights and instead cries out "tshakal." The crowd tries to understand what he meant, but only the young man understand the ultimate insight realized by the anti-hero -- that God's justice is always active in the world.

I ask -- between the two poles (or Poles) -- is one canon merely another in a foreign accent?

Thank you for linking to my comments about Ben Sira. But let me comment on this passage:

The authority of the deuterocanonicals is derivative, but no less real for that reason. In developing a Christology, there is much to be said for drawing from the deuterocanonicals’ riches, just as there is much to be said for drawing from the riches of the Fathers beyond the New Testament.

I fail to understand why I should recognise the deuterocanonicals as having any special authority. Are you simply saying that they, like the writings of the Fathers, contain good material? I'm sure they do. But, as Qoheleth already noted, "Of making many books there is no end" (Ecclesiastes 12:12). For more than 2000 years since Ben Sira there has been a vast output of books, both religious and secular, many of which contain gold among the mud. Is there any good reason why I should do my gold-digging in the deuterocanonicals, or in the Fathers, and not in modern writings? Yes, it is good to know writing from many different periods and sources. But is there something different in principle with these particular writings which give them greater authority? Yes, people of past generations found gold in them, and refined that gold into succeeding generations of scholarship. Is there a good reason for us to continue to go back there?

I am aware that the same argument could be applied to the uncontested canonical Bible books. But I would personally attribute to them a quite different level of authority - although I know that raises another whole set of questions.

Also, I differ from you about the barbaric passage inserted between 1 Samuel 10 and 11 in NRSV, based on just one DSS fragment, which turns a ritualised exaggerated threat of gouging out eyes into an actual practice. There is no evidence that Josephus knew the text here, just that he knew a similar story. This story is easily explained as a polemical addition reflecting increased hostility between Israelites and Transjordanians in the late Second Temple period. So there is no good evidence to suggest that it was an original part of 1 Samuel, and no reason to include it in any canon.

Thanks, Peter, for your comments.

It is telling that are you are dismissive of the deuterocanonicals and of the Fathers in one and the same breath. Perhaps you are also dismissive of the Nicene Creed, and hold to another. Perhaps you also reject the New Testament canon, which the Fathers promoted and fought for over the course of the second, third, fourth, and fifth centuries. You are welcome to "personally attribute" authority to whatever you want. But I detect an anti-historical, not merely an anti-traditional, slant to your line of thought.

If you know of "modern writings" that are as helpful as Ben Sira and Wisdom of Solomon in making sense out of the Christologies of the New Testament and the Fathers, let me know. If you know of modern wisdom literature that is more of a piece with Proverbs on the one hand and the ethical material in the New Testament and the Fathers on the other than Ben Sira, let me know.

If you know of modern theologians that make the study of Irenaeus, Origen, Augustine, and Ambrose superfluous, let me know. The ones I read are careful to anchor their theological efforts in the efforts of those who have gone before them.

As for "the barbaric passage" inserted between 1 Samuel 10 and 11 by NRSV, if I believed, as you do, that it is a polemical addition of the late Second Temple period, I would also see no reason to include it in any canon. But I don't believe that, though I might wish I did.

There are strong text-critical arguments in favor of the conclusion that the passage is original. For a balanced discussion, see Emanuel Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (2d ed.; Minneapolis: Fortress, 1992) 342-344. To suggest that Josephus didn't have the passage in his copy of 1 Samuel, but knew the contents of the passage from somewhere else, is hardly a parsimonious hypothesis.

Yes, John, I am dismissive of any writings outside the Protestant Bible, in the sense that I do not hold them to have any authority independent of what they derive from the Bible. Even if they contain prophetic revelations, I do not accept that these have any authority except in so far as they elucidate the authoritative Bible. Yes, I have the same attitude to the Creeds: their authority is derived from the Bible. Does my position surprise you? It shouldn't, because this is more or less the standard evangelical position.

I don't even take the Fathers as authoritative in defining the limits of the Bible. But I accept that this raises questions about how I do define those limits, questions which I cannot answer in a short comment.

If you know of "modern writings" that are as helpful as Ben Sira and Wisdom of Solomon in making sense out of the Christologies of the New Testament and the Fathers, let me know.

Come on, John, there are a multitude of modern books on the Christology of the New Testament and the Fathers. Good ones, I am sure, distill what is necessary from Ben Sira and Wisdom of Solomon. Choose one for yourself. Similarly with studies of the Fathers. Yes, certainly it is good that there are scholars who go back to these original sources and write books to explain them to modern people. But this is a job for specialists, who write the books which are trainee pastors etc read in seminary. And a well educated pastor should perhaps have dipped into these ancient sources, as I have (having had a pastor's training although I am not one). But a canon is not a list of books for scholarly specialists, it is intended for ordinary believers and their leaders, who have more important things to do in life than researching from original literature matters which have been well described by modern scholars.

To go back to your gold in the mud metaphor (was it Jerome's?), if I want a gold ring, I can spend years panning through lots of mud, but it is much easier and probably cheaper to buy it at a jeweller's shop. Of course someone has to do the panning, but why should I?

Anyway, you still haven't answered why I should consider the deuterocanonicals more authoritative than the Fathers. Or, if I shouldn't, I end up with a canon including the Fathers, and then why not mediaeval Doctors, then why not... How do I distinguish a canon from a theological library?

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  • Ancient Hebrew Poetry is a weblog of John F. Hobbins. Opinions expressed herein do not reflect those of his professional affiliations. Unless otherwise indicated, the contents of Ancient Hebrew Poetry, including all text, images, and other media, are original and licensed under a Creative Commons License.

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